HVACs with crossed cold/hot water lines versus condensate drainage

I’ll call this post “The Adventures of Installing New HVACs.”

Last night’s post on “HVAC Condensate Problems,” generated a number of emails to me as comments, requests, or questions.

MARK’S INTRO

I referred this set of questions from Mark Day to David Robinson. What was going on in Mark’s tier turned out to be caused by noonstandard installation of an HVAC done several years back.  Here is the intro by Mark and the Q & A exchange between Mark and David:

Last Friday, a Quality Air guy - Oleg - turned off our new console unit because he found condensation on the warm water line & thought our cold & hot lines could be crossed. The big problem was that hot water was bleeding into the chiller for the whole riser. 

I was sure the problem was not in our new carefully installed unit. And after closing our valves, the problem in the whole tier continued so…seems not [caused by Mark’s console HVAC]. 

But the console is still off & we can't cool our study. Oleg said a couple of days ago when I saw him in hall that they were still checking & hadn't found the crossed lines.

Talking to Hollis in the elevator, he outlined the clogged drains issue you [Karren Alenier] discussed.

So maybe the problem really is clogged lines? Or both that & crossed lines? 

MAIN QUESTIONS: 

1) Have you heard about the crossed lines issue?

David: Yes, I am familiar with it.

2) Have other apts. had their units' valves shut off?

David: My understanding is that all of the apts. in your tier will be shut off and brought back on line one at a time until the fan coil with the crossed lines is identified.  This is normal procedure.

3) When will we know that our risers/tiers lines have been cleared & we can safely run our HVACs?

David: Management will notify you.  Of course when the misconnected fan coil is identified the four pipes will need to be drained and the fan coil connected correctly.  Since Quality Air is already in the building the work should be completed rapidly.

4) You mention five lines have been cleared: out of how many total that need to be cleared?

David: The five lines were selected based on the number of condensate pans overflowing in the tier. The original plumbing blueprints for the building are being studied to determine the total number of condensate drains.  I suspect that they all need to be cleared.

5) Do they have a schedule as they did with windows so we'll know when ours is done?

David: When the total number of drains is determined a schedule will be developed and distributed.

FOLLOW UP

David told me that there were six engineers working on the problems in the building today along with some Quality Air employees. Here is the finding and fix as described by David:

“The offending unit turned out be a two pipe unit installed perhaps as long as 4 years ago and jury-rigged to connect to the 4 pipe riser.  It is currently isolated from the system and will be replaced with the appropriate 4-pipe unit by Quality Air early next week.  Having been installed years ago, the history on who had installed it is lost.”

David also said, “In the separate issue of clearing condensate lines, the engineering staff working with Denzel continues to remove the blockage from additional lines.  They have been too busy to review the blue prints so no total number of lines is yet available.” [The number of lines is not equal to the number of tiers in our building, Typically, more than one tier feeds into these condensate lines.]

Also one other thing to know about the floods (dripping) from the condensate lines is that these wet ceilings/walls are more likely to happen on the lower floors.

Thank you, David Robinson, for volunteering your time to sort out these problems with the army  of engineers.

HVAC Condensate Problems

Now is the time to pay close attention to the ceiling and walls near your HVAC (fancoil) units and be vigilant for leaks. If you have a leak, contact the management office right away, either directly or through the concierge.

It seems the installation of new HVACs has taxed the old condensate drainage lines which were not cleared out before the installation of the new, more efficient fancoils. The new fancoils collect more moisture from humid air and therefore put a heavier load on the the condensate drainage lines.

Densel has been called in to clear these lines which originate on G1 level. So far, five of these lines have been cleared.

Kudos to David Robinson who is working with the new Board and Densel to ensure the problem is taken care of.

Results of the Historic 2015 Annual Meeting

The 2015 annual meeting of the Elizabeth Condominium Association goes down on the records for community-wide participation.

—Quorem for conducting the meeting was achieved quickly and was something over 60%.

The annual meeting requires a sum of over 50% participation through a count of proxy votes for the candidates and in person registration of Association members. There have been many annual meetings in the past where people were dispatched to knock on doors to get the required participation, leaving people who were already registered in limbo waiting to see if the meeting could be held.

—The special proxy for amending the bylaw change amendment from 75% to 66.66% was passed with votes weighing in at over 78%.

Through an extraordinary feat of leadership, teamwork, long hours, and challenging tasks, the Participation Committee did what everyone labelled impossible—the bylaw change amendment was passed and, at that, on the very first time attempt. High honors go to Jean Umiker-Sebeok who led the charge with gusto and expertise unlike anything the ECA has ever experienced before.

One should also note that the total participation of the Association, including the no votes, was much higher than the 78% and was something over 90%. This level of participation from our Association members has probably never been achieved before and shows a very healthy response from our community.

There were many Association members who participated to make this a success outcome. At a later time, I will see if I can get a full list of those who contributed to this effort. I also note special thanks to outgoing Board member Jim Vuko for creating the Participation Committee and seeing fit to give broad leadership leeway to some of the amazing talent, like Jean Umiker-Sebeok.

—Results of the election for new Board members in order of highest percentage of votes:
Peg Downey
Clifford Cohen
Jim Jones

Congratulations to the new roster of Board members and appreciation to all who ran.

Also many thanks to the team of Legum & Norman officials who staffed the registration tables and led the way in counting the votes as well as the ECA volunteers who served as election officials. Thanks as well to Elizabeth staff who served in a variety of roles to make the evening successful and to other ECA volunteers who contributed their sweat equity for such tasks as setting up and attending to the refreshments.

This was an extraordinary level of participation for the Elizabeth Condominium Association, a most historic event!

Summary of ECA Board Meeting April 28, 2015

Board Present: Steven Schattman, Sharon Bobb, Patricia Batey, Jim Jones, John McNerney, Alfred Muller, Jim Vuko

Others Present: ECA General Manager Terry Lee, Legum & Norman Regional Manager James Santos, Ken Kosteva of Wiss, Janney, Elstner

President’s Report

Steven Schattman urged ECA members to attend the annual meeting May 6 or to turn in their proxies.

At the May 26 Board meeting (the next monthly Board meeting), the draft budget that was recently sent to Association members will be voted on.

Report on Building Façade Work, Balcony Renovation, and Window/Balcony Door Installation

—This project is scheduled for completion the end June.

—To date there has been one balcony door installation failure.

—The pool will be closed for a week starting next week to attend to the window installation, which had been started but not completed.

—Arcade windows will not be replaced during this project.

—Windows in the West Lobby were replaced during the Lobby Renovation Project and will only require minor attention during this project.

Highlights of the Meeting

The management office and business center will get new copiers.

The pool facility requires tile work that Management is actively pursuing.

Water aerobics teacher requested free access to the party room for an exercise class. Issues included free access for a commercial offering and interference for regularly scheduled construction and committee meetings. A compromise may be offered for access at an earlier time with a small fee.

Tutorial on the Cost Difference of In-house versus L&N Engineer Position

Pat Batey offered a detailed explanation about erroneous information used in a passed board meeting to decide whether our Chief Engineer should be on ECA staff rolls or on Legum & Norman’s rolls. The initial calculation done by L&N was based on our past Chief Engineer’s salary and payouts to the total of $40,000 versus $9900. The calculation should have been based on market salary levels for an engineer. This erroneous cost savings was outlined at the August 2014 Board meeting and used to approve the Chief Engineer position as an L&N staff member. Then, as in this meeting, Batey, Bobb, and Jones had advocated for the Chief Engineer position being on ECA staff in order to preserve institutional memory. This information may prove useful in future decision-making.

Committee Reports

Participation Committee continues to work on the campaign to update the ECA Bylaws starting with the initiative to lower the number of votes required to change ECA bylaws. So far votes by proxy count 66% of the Association in favor of the change. To pass, the vote must tally 75%. ECA legal counsel said the Board would be allowed to vote for property owned by the Association that includes two apartments and numerous parking spaces. The Board voted to support the Bylaw change amendment.

Making a Difference Committee—The next big drive will occur in the fall of 2015 and support projects outlined by The Wider Circle.

Comments from Floor

The annual meeting package went to ECA members with two errors: Peg Downey’s name was left off her statement of candidacy and the introduction erroneously stated that members should vote for “four (3) members to the Board of Directors.” Peg Downey requested that the error be corrected in advance of the annual meeting.

Meet the 2015 ECA Board Candidates—a few comments

This year we have five candidates—Charles Bressler, Clifford Cohen, Peg Downey, Jim Jones,  and Alfred Muller—running for three board positions. It takes a lot of energy and courage to run.

The candidate who presented best was Peg Downey, who not only has the experience we need (one of her strong suits is finances), but has a long time involvement with Association committees as well as great ideas for how to make our Association run better.

Two surprising things happened at this year’s Meet the Candidates program:

— a sitting board member, and not an impartial moderator, ran the question and answer period, and

—one of the candidates, currently a sitting board member, revealed names and actions for something that happened in an executive board meeting that is supposed to be protected information since it involved Elizabeth staff members.

In the recent past, the Meet the Candidates program was moderated by a Legum and Norman representative, but for this April 23, 2015, program, the Elizabeth Condominium Association president Steven Schattman took that role. He used that position to ask the first question, which was to reveal who among these candidates would not attend every board meeting. He also did this without noting that last year he did not attend the ECA Annual Meeting nor will he be attending the Annual Meeting this year.

One needs to stop and think why the sitting president would want to ask the first question of the program without allowing audience members to think of such a line of inquiry themselves. One can only think that he wished to eliminate certain candidates and prejudice audience members. Frankly, I found all the candidates gave satisfactory answers about how they would fulfill their obligation if elected to the board because that is the point of this question. Board members are volunteers and they have other things going on in their lives as does Mr. Schattman.

It’s a fact, as those of us who regularly attended monthly ECA meetings know, personnel matters are handled privately in executive meetings of the ECA board. Alfred Muller addressing the sensitive issue of how former front desk staff members were suddenly dismissed from the ECA payroll, revealed by name how the voting on that issue played out. Acknowledging that he should not be speaking about the details of this matter, Dr. Muller used this opportunity to promote his alliance with the sitting president, who is not up for reelection this year.

I question Dr. Muller’s ethics, judgment, and his viability as a board member.

Summary of ECA Board Meeting March 24, 2015

Board Present: Steven Schattman, Sharon Bobb, Jim Jones, John McNerney, Alfred Muller, Jim Vuko

Absent: Patricia Batey

Others Present: ECA General Manager Terry Lee, Legum & Norman Senior Vice President DC Metro Division Greg Robey.

Highlights of the Meeting

Board Election 2015. Three seats on the ECA Board are open for candidates. Consider running for the Board.

Building Renovations: Ken Kosteva of Wiss, Janney, Eistner reported that despite adverse weather that the balcony-window-balcony door-building restoration work was close to the target completion dates. The target completion date is early May.

Also present to answer questions was Jon Lane of Managanaro but most of the questions were directed to Kosteva.

Attendees were given the floor to make comments and ask questions. While some people were satisfied with the work done on their units, many others expressed their dismay including several owners where the windows installed did not fit properly and had to be remade. Many comments pertained to the long lack of access to unit balconies. Some of the other complaints were: doors that did not fit, window hung crooked, damage to flooring, insufficient clean up afterward.

One additional issue that came up in the audience comment period pertained to getting a tax energy credit for our new windows.  Molly Frantz insists that this is possible for those who got their windows installed in 2014 but there is some information that is needed. The construction representatives say that the matter is complicated by how the windows were assembled and to get the accreditation required a hefty cost and time delay no one in management was willing to undertake.

Renewal of the Legum & Norman Contract: ECA President Steve Schattman had planned to have the Board renew the L&N contract for three years but he and the Board received many communications from ECA members requesting an evaluation of L&N (possibly with an outside reviewing agent), going out for bids from several management companies, and holding off on signing the L&N contract until the new Board is seated in May. A compromise was offered such that the L&N contract would run for one year starting in July.

Attendees were given time to comment with the same kind of satisfaction/dissatisfaction ratio heard about the building renovations. Communication breakdown seemed to be the biggest problem such that residents reported problems to our management office without getting timely or adequate service.

BuildingLInk. An add-on to BuildingLink called KeyLink will be installed in April. This will help manage the security of security keys kept at the front desk. Reminder: BuildingLink has an electronic library of documents, including minutes and condo documents. Over 100 people have signed onto BuildingLink and people are using the electronic bulletin board function.

Approvals:

The Winkler Pool contract was approved. (However, the pool is currently closed until April 22, 2015, because of window replacement there and other maintenance work.

A budget for landscape maintenance was approved.

Garage doors replacement was approved.

Draft budget has been accepted and will be voted on in May by the new Board.

Tabled: The elevator contract is up for renewal but it was tabled.

Committees:

Participation Committee is making progress with its campaign to update the ECA Bylaws.

Fitness Committee: an old treadmill was replaced.

Old Business

Noise from water pump continues. It can be heard in West Tower elevator Lobby and a resident owner’s apartment.  The problem is over one year running.